Arreyan
Posts:3
Insaf Member
 | | 28/06/2008 4:48 AM |
| | Kindly tell what is Insaf's poicy at Dr. Israr statement about Hazrat Ali (KW)? | | | |
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sialkotdaraja
Posts:3046
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 5:22 AM |
| PTI oppose Dr. Israr's Remarks or any remarks which are made or given against ANy Of Ashab-e-Rasool and Khulfa-e-Rashideen.
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I don't believe in taking Right decisions, I take decisions and make them right! - Jinnah | |
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Arreyan
Posts:3
Insaf Member
| | 28/06/2008 5:27 AM |
| thanks for reply and information. Protest should be recorded.
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The insider
Posts:410
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 5:52 AM |
| | what was the issue | | | |
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Gujranwalia
Posts:403
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 6:26 AM |
| I am sure Dr Israr will never do any thing like that. There are people who openly insut all the Sahabas minus few. Tahreek is not a religous party. It is the movement of Justice a socio-political party and it believes in practical work rather than issuing statements left right and centre.
Its leadership leads by examle to bring forth justifies change in the society.
I do not under stand why people need to ask for PTI's stand on this issue??
With due respect to Sailkot da Raja are you an central office bearer of PTI?
If not why you have answered to the Question asked.
I am sure as PTI members we must adhere to the party displine. | | | |
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Arreyan
Posts:3
Insaf Member
| | 28/06/2008 6:32 AM |
| | http://youtube.com/watch?v=hCqakl9tMp8
Kindly check this | | | |
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Saleem Bajwa
Posts:0
| | 28/06/2008 7:57 AM |
| While it is, true that PTI is a political party but still it is a party of Islamic Jamahiriya Pakistan, where Religion and politics are no two different things. We cannot renounce our faith for political reasons. Please do not follow the so-called enlightened moderation expounded by Mush. Bear in mind, FAITH is an intagral part of our destiny.
It certainly has been most disgusting listening to the sermon of Dr Israr, and I condom it most strenuously.
Let alone the Khulfa-e-Rashdeen, no one has any right to say anything malicious against any of the Suhabi-e-Rasool. It is sad to say that there are people who commit slander, in particular, against Hazert Aysha Sedeeqa and the first three Khalifas, and they get away with such a heinous crime. It is the duty of State to punish such transgressors.
The great poet of Punjab commences his Ballard of Heer with an invocation. First, he praises Allah, then the Final Prophet, and in the third place, he honours the Khulfa-e-Rashdeen. I produce here a piece from my translation:
‘All the four, prime companions of the prophet were like four jewels, each excelled the other for his matchless excellence. Abu Bakr, Omer, Usman, and Ali, charm our hearts for their incomparable merits. They picked the path of sincerity and conviction with complete faith, and sacrificed their physical comforts in the way of God. How magnificent were these men of God, who shunned the worldly pleasures and practiced sheer austerity.’
There are people who omit this cannot stanza of Waris Shah, simply because they are shackled with the fetters of their sect.
Making sects is not permissible in Islam. The Holy Quran does not approve it; one example is Surah Al anam, verse 159
‘Innal-lziina farraquu diinahum wa kaanuu shiya-‘allasta minhum fii shay’ ;inna-maaa ‘amruhum ‘ilal-laahi summa yunabbi-uhum-bimaa kaanuu yaf-‘aluun.’ [Transliteration by Haleem Eliyasee]
Ώ] Lo! As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatic (sects), no concern at all hast thou with them. Their case will go to Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.
(Translation by M M pickthall])- [Sunni version]
ΐ] Verily those who divided their religion and became parties, thou hast no concern with anything of them; their affair is with God only, then will He inform them of what they did.
(Translation by Mir Ahmed Ali) - [Shia version]
The meaning of Shiya = ﺸﻳﻌﭑ schismatic sects, parties
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sialkotdaraja
Posts:3046
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 8:00 AM |
| @Gujranwalia
Brother I am not the office Bearer But I am A member of PTI from Past more than 10 years. And this Statement I have given Above is rite PTI and its Members Do Condem any statement given against any Ashab-e-Rasool or all of the four Calips of Islam.
If I am not A PTI office Bearer that what it means that I cannot Defend Islam.
Religion is Religion and PTI is PTI.
I will suggest you to go through the above link which Arreyan have posted.
After you watch that Brother I will like you to put your views on this forum.
SHOULD PTI condem or We should just Keep Quite? | |
I don't believe in taking Right decisions, I take decisions and make them right! - Jinnah | |
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Saleem Bajwa
Posts:0
| | 28/06/2008 9:05 AM |
| | I think it was childish to ask about the policy of PTI on the above issue, any Muslim should be aware that a slandering any Suhabe will lead the culprit to the hellfire. No muslim should remain under any doubt about it. | | | |
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waqas
Posts:532
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 11:39 AM |
| @well all guys , we should always analyse things objectively and then pass conclusion. Obviously Hazrat Ali (RA) and all khulufae rashideen are highly respected and their respect is part of mine and your faith.
But look into this video carefully and then pass judgment.
1) Dr. Israr is not giving his opinion rather he is qouting a hadith from Tirmizi sharif..
2) all sunis consider Tirmizi sharif an authentic book on hadith along with 5 others.
So there comes two questions..
This riwayat has been included in tirmizi from centuries so its not something new, and and it must have been gone through the eyes of thousands of islamic religous scholars in arab, asia and africa, and they had no objection on the Riwayat credibility. Since i have very limited knoweldge therefoe i cant dispute such great islmaic scholars or tirmizi sharif about its authenticity.
Secondly, from the video i saw, it seems that riwayat is referring to an incident that led to completly ban "sharab". It means, before that sharab wasnt "haram". Even that "Ayaat" didnt completly ban sharab when it stated that dont go near to nimaz when you are drunk, but after that "khamar" was declared completly forbidden and haram.
According to Dr. Zakir naik Allah's wisdom is absolute and most of the reveleation in Quran to eradicate any social evil in arabs like sharrab was a step wise approach.. Similarly it goes for "riba" or "the question of slavery" in quran, which wasnt banned on the first day when Prophet got reveleation of "iqra"..
According to Ghamidi if The evil of "interest based economy" in mulim countries to be eradicated tody, it would require the same step wise approach, or else our economy will collapse and their would be abrupt poverty.
So my dear fellows all this controversy to me is meaningless and lacks objectivity as usual in Pakistan. we should be more research oriented when passing judgements.
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waqas
Posts:532
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 11:41 AM |
| @well all guys , we should always analyse things objectively and then pass conclusion. Obviously Hazrat Ali (RA) and all khulufae rashideen are highly respected and their respect is part of mine and your faith.
But look into this video carefully and then pass judgment.
1) Dr. Israr is not giving his opinion rather he is qouting a hadith from Tirmizi sharif..
2) all sunis consider Tirmizi sharif an authentic book on hadith along with 5 others.
So there comes two questions..
This riwayat has been included in tirmizi from centuries so its not something new, and and it must have been gone through the eyes of thousands of islamic religous scholars in arab, asia and africa, and they had no objection on the Riwayat credibility. Since i have very limited knoweldge therefoe i cant dispute such great islmaic scholars or tirmizi sharif about its authenticity.
Secondly, from the video i saw, it seems that riwayat is referring to an incident that led to completly ban "sharab". It means, before that sharab wasnt "haram". Even that "Ayaat" didnt completly ban sharab when it stated that dont go near to nimaz when you are drunk, but after that "khamar" was declared completly forbidden and haram.
According to Dr. Zakir naik Allah's wisdom is absolute and most of the reveleation in Quran to eradicate any social evil in arabs like sharrab was a step wise approach.. Similarly it goes for "riba" or "the question of slavery" in quran, which wasnt banned on the first day when Prophet got reveleation of "iqra"..
According to Ghamidi if The evil of "interest based economy" in mulim countries to be eradicated tody, it would require the same step wise approach, or else our economy will collapse and their would be abrupt poverty.
So my dear fellows all this controversy to me is meaningless and lacks objectivity as usual in Pakistan. we should be more research oriented when passing judgements.
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waqas
Posts:532
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 11:41 AM |
| @well all guys , we should always analyse things objectively and then pass conclusion. Obviously Hazrat Ali (RA) and all khulufae rashideen are highly respected and their respect is part of mine and your faith.
But look into this video carefully and then pass judgment.
1) Dr. Israr is not giving his opinion rather he is qouting a hadith from Tirmizi sharif..
2) all sunis consider Tirmizi sharif an authentic book on hadith along with 5 others.
So there comes two questions..
This riwayat has been included in tirmizi from centuries so its not something new, and and it must have been gone through the eyes of thousands of islamic religous scholars in arab, asia and africa, and they had no objection on the Riwayat credibility. Since i have very limited knoweldge therefoe i cant dispute such great islmaic scholars or tirmizi sharif about its authenticity.
Secondly, from the video i saw, it seems that riwayat is referring to an incident that led to completly ban "sharab". It means, before that sharab wasnt "haram". Even that "Ayaat" didnt completly ban sharab when it stated that dont go near to nimaz when you are drunk, but after that "khamar" was declared completly forbidden and haram.
According to Dr. Zakir naik Allah's wisdom is absolute and most of the reveleation in Quran to eradicate any social evil in arabs like sharrab was a step wise approach.. Similarly it goes for "riba" or "the question of slavery" in quran, which wasnt banned on the first day when Prophet got reveleation of "iqra"..
According to Ghamidi if The evil of "interest based economy" in mulim countries to be eradicated tody, it would require the same step wise approach, or else our economy will collapse and their would be abrupt poverty.
So my dear fellows all this controversy to me is meaningless and lacks objectivity as usual in Pakistan. we should be more research oriented when passing judgements.
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Saleem Bajwa
Posts:0
| | 28/06/2008 3:30 PM |
| There has been no justification for Dr Israr to quote an unreliable Rawaiet about Hazret Ali, the Saqee-e-Khwther. Being an eminent scholar, he was duty bound to be more prudent when making his point. Otherwise what is the difference between him and those Qadiyanis who quote a fabricated Rawaiet, from Dur-e-Monsure related to Hazret Aysha, i.e. ‘O, people, you may call him (the prophet) ‘Khatm-un-Nabiyeen’, but do not say ‘La Nabi Bade’ about him. This also is the practice of Rafzais to make unfounded statements about some Suhabah Ikram (May Allah be pleased with them all).
I think we all should ask forgiveness from Allah including Dr Israr for this profanity, and then put an end to this topic.
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waqas
Posts:532
Insaf Shaheen
| | 28/06/2008 11:45 PM |
| | well brother bajwa the riwayat is absolutely authentic for sunni muslims as i talked personally to an islamic scholar from libya and then one from Egypt.. I also read some scholars from Saudi Arabia.. But please do not take on your heart if you are shia (i have alot of respect for them) because the things i have mentioned were explicitly for sunni muslims as i know that shia brothers dispute saha e sita books. So their cant be any argument with someone if they dispute the sources.. | | | |
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The insider
Posts:410
Insaf Shaheen
| | 30/06/2008 1:55 PM |
| | well said waqasi | | | |
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masyed
Posts:296
Insaf Shaheen
| | 30/06/2008 5:22 PM |
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Where every subject (like Medicine /Engg/computing ) requires a Formal eduaction for numbers of years-similar is the case with Quran and Hadees also. it requires research and formal education
The Ilme e Hadees is very wide and thorough knowledge in its self, where principals (well) defined in Asool e Hadees for Asnaad e Hadees - Ismaa e Rijaal , Tahamal e Hadees are further subjects deep enough in their own capacity
(in Usool e Hadees ) Hadees is to be evaluated by from various angles and one of the MOST important being its Asnaad ( chain of hadees)
THERE ARE MORE THEN 30 ASNAAD OF "THIS VERY" HADEES MUBARAK ARE MENTIONING THAT THIS PRAYER WAS "NOT" LEAD BY HAZRAT ALI (KARAM ALLAH WAJHU)
But some how Dr Israr still preferred to mentioned such a hades ( I don't know why)
Moreover the way it was mentioned was also very unfortunate / disrespectful - ( if u can watch his video)
After mentioning the frst Quranic Ayaat he said
".....Too buhut say logoon nay tu is waqt sharab tark kar dee ishara paa gay
Magar Zahir baat hay JIN KI GHUTTI main sharaab pari hoi thi inti baat per tu choornay wale naheen thay ... "
Now Ghutti given to Hazrat Ali karam Allah wajhu [after their birth in Khanaa Kaaba in Hands of Prophet MUhammad ( Salleh Allaho walaihe waalihe wasalam)]
was by prophet Muhamad (peace be upon Him) THEMSELVES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCqakl9tMp8
May be now someone should Ask Dr Israr Ahmad "what was he saying ......??? "
.Does he understands its implications in both worlds.... ??? ......
.......
May Allah guide all of us (Ameen)
Anyway
In my humble opinion this is NOT the right forum to discuss these issues. as we cannnot resolve such serious issues on these web forums. It needs a very formal and serious effort for understanding Quran /Hadees/Fiqah etc with over all context and quoting everybit of it with Justice
I will request Moderator to Please TO DEFINE A POLICY TO NOT TO ALLOW members TO OPEN UP SUCH controversial RELIGIOUS THREADS ( or close them later on if found )- IT IS MUCH NEEDED HERE
OTHERWISE I am afraid it may l lead to division of PTI work force. we should seriously focus on our own Political goals and strengthen the Movement for independent judiciary in our country somehow.
and that should be our goal as PTI family
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masyed
Posts:296
Insaf Shaheen
| | 30/06/2008 5:36 PM |
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Where every subject (like Medicine /Engg/computing ) requires a Formal eduaction for numbers of years-similar is the case with Quran and Hadees also. it requires research and formal education
The Ilme e Hadees is very wide and thorough knowledge in its self, where principals (well) defined in Usool e Hadees for Asnaad e Hadees - Ismaa e Rijaal , Tahamal e Hadees etc are further subjects deep enough in their own capacity
(in Usool e Hadees ) Hadees is to be evaluated by from various angles and one of the MOST important being its Asnaad ( chain of hadees)
THERE ARE MORE THEN 30 ASNAAD OF "THIS VERY" HADEES MUBARAK MENTIONING THAT THIS PRAYER WAS "NOT" LEAD BY HAZRAT ALI (KARAM ALLAH WAJHU)
But some how Dr Israr still preferred to mentioned such a hades ( I don't know why)
Moreover the way it was mentioned was also very unfortunate / disrespectful - ( if u can watch his video)
After mentioning the frst Quranic Ayaat he said
".....Too buhut say logoon nay tu is waqt sharab tark kar dee ishara paa gay !!!
Magar Zahir baat hay JIN KI GHUTTI main sharaab pari hoi thi inti baat per tu choornay wale naheen thay ... "
Now what we need to know here is that Ghutti given to Hazrat Ali karam Allah wajhu [after their birth in Khanaa Kaaba in Hands of Prophet MUhammad ( Salleh Allaho walaihe waalihe wasalam)]
was by Prophet Muhamad (peace be upon Him) THEMSELVES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCqakl9tMp8
May be now someone should Ask Dr Israr Ahmad "what was he saying ......??? "
.Does he understands its implications in both worlds.... ??? ......
.......
May Allah guide all of us (Ameen)
Anyway
In my humble opinion this is NOT the right forum to discuss these issues. as we cannnot resolve such serious issues on these web forums. It needs a very formal and serious effort for understanding Quran /Hadees/Fiqah etc with over all context and quoting everybit of it with Justice
I will request Moderator to Please DEFINE A POLICY TO NOT TO ALLOW members TO OPEN UP SUCH controversial RELIGIOUS THREADS ( or close them later on if found )- IT IS MUCH NEEDED for more focused and Idealogical future of. OTHERWISE I am afraid it may lead to division of PTI work force. we should seriously focus on our own Political goals and strengthen the Movement for independent judiciary in our country somehow. (which we can not afford to miss focus from)
This should be our prime objective as PTI family | | | |
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masyed
Posts:296
Insaf Shaheen
| | 30/06/2008 5:42 PM |
| Apologies ... Unfortunately the last Post got submitted multiple times .. some how
Admin !!! it will be highly appreciated if you could please help in removing the extra submitted posts
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sajjadkhan
Posts:1310
Insaf Shaheen
| | 30/06/2008 7:05 PM |
| | Dr.israr is not some ordinary scholor,who just study deen for few years,he spend all his life in deen.do not take any of his statment wrong or in negative context.if you do wanna pass a coment then am sure you should have enough knowledge,practice & study of deen as DR have.you don't argue with medical doctor unless you have medical degree so please check your caliber before disrespecting some one. | | | |
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SAQIB
Posts:95
Insaf Tiger
| | 01/07/2008 4:41 AM |
| This is the actual position of Dr. Israr
http://saqibshehzad.blogspot.com/2008/06/dr-isrars-response.html
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