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Subject: islamic society vs western society
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hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


14/07/2009 2:11 AM  

If, western societies are positive,

What does it mean ???

 

Does it mean that that Islamic society in iran is less positive ???

Why ???

 

Why is this that with all negative changes that western societies have made on all human societies, yet, there is an impression that western societies are better ???

 

Why there is such impression in people minds ???

Why ???

 

This is a very serious question,

 

Why people think that way ???

This should be properly investigated that why is this,

 

Suppose,

 

If, I am thirsty, (or any one)

I do not need obama’s statement or bbc or cnn special reports or a fatwa from a religious personality or a unsc resolution to know that that I am thirsty, do I ???

 

I just feel it,

Even if, the whole world says that I am not thirsty, I won’t accept it,

Because I know that I am thirsty,

 

This is the decision that my body has taken automatically as per natural requirement of my body,

 

No propaganda, no obama, no sarkozy, no milliband, no fatwa, no unsc resolution, no bbc, no cnn can change the decision of my body,

 

Even if, I myself can not resist the decision taken by my body,

Until I am fresh, healthy, aware and alive,

 

As same, there are some decisions that human bodies automatically take after natural analysis inside hearts and minds when human beings encounter some thing new or different,

 

For example, people encounter narcotics but more than 90% people of the world automatically decide that they should not take it,

 

Why ????

 

Because, people know that this is narcotic and this bad for health,

Isn’t it ???

 

So, what is the main reason of such decision that people take ???

Knowledge, clear-cut understanding, zero confusion,

 

But, there are people who decide otherwise,

There are people, who decide that narcotic is positive for them,

Whythey decide that ???

 

Although they are aware of narcotic’s destruction,

Yet, they decide in favor of narcotics ???

Why ???

 

They know that there is no benefit in use of narcotics,

They know that the use of narcotics is illegal and bad,

They know that narcotics will definitely harm their health,

They know that narcotics will shorten their lives,

 

Yet, they decide in favor of narcotics,

Why ?????

 

Is it wise, because people like to use narcotics,

So that govt should allow it not only allow it but freely distribute it in public,

Do you agree with this ???

 

Of course, there are people, who like narcotics,

Of course, there are some immediate and temporary benefits in use of narcotics,

 

So, because a group of people like narcotics, should govt make the use of narcotics lawful ???

Would you agree to this proposal ???

 

Of course, you would never agree to this proposal,

 

If, I ask why???

If, I object on your disagreement to this proposal, then,

If, I call your objection as ‘death to dictator’ then,

If, I name your objection as a forceful imposition of your wish, then,

If, I dislike and reject your laws and regulations in respect of narcotics, then,

 

I have reasons to disagree with you,

My first reason is, I like narcotics,

My second reason is, I feel comfortable in narcotics,

My third reason is, my whole friends use narcotics,

My fourth reason is, I want to give my friends a good company,

Etc…etc…etc,

 

 

So, because I have reasons, would you like to allow me use of narcotics ????

 

Of course not,

You will never allow me,

Not only you will disallow me but you will handover me to law enforcement agencies, if I insist regularly ???

 

Now you understand that how common decisions are made automatically in our hearts and minds ???

 

There is no doubt that western societies have various positive points,

But, it does not mean that the Islamic system is useless,

 

What is the difference between Islamic society and western society ???

 

For example, there are prostitutes in both western and Islamic societies. Both majority of westerners and non-westerners don’t like prostitutes.

 

The only difference is in treatment.

 

In western societies, prostitutes are disliked; however, they are not questioned. They can continue their lives as a prostitute as long as they want. No problem. They have no social problem. They are free and respectable.

 

In Islamic society, however, prostitutes are not only disliked but disrespected. Prostitutes can not continue their profession as a prostitute in Islamic society openly and freely and in a respectable manner. People will never want to be seen ever with them in day lights, no matter even if they spend the whole night with them. If, prostitutes are caught by law enforcement agencies, they are punished according to law.

 

Let’s compare both attitudes:

 

Western laws and regulations fully protect the respect and right of prostitute,

Islamic laws and regulations fully discourage and deny the right of prostitute,

 

Do you call Islamic laws as inhumane, insulting, hypocrisy and old-fashioned???

Do you call western laws as human, dignified, true and proper???

 

By protecting few individual’s rights and dignity, western laws deny the respect and dignity of majority, because majority of people do not like prostitution. There are millions and millions of people in usa and west who never touched a prostitute in their whole life, 

 

By rejecting few individual’s rights and dignity, Islamic laws protect the respect and dignity of majority, majority of people do not like prostitution. There are only one percent or less who either themselves are prostitutes or in need of prostitutes,

 

The behavior of giving full respect, dignity and honor to prostitutes by western society actually provided an opportunity to prostitutes to mix up in society freely, boldly and openly. This has caused an over whelming spread of prostitution in western society. You could not have imagined the honorable status of prostitutes as they have today in western society, just fifty years ago. Today prostitutes in western society have display centers, training centers, massage centers, websites, posters, porn advertisements, porn movies, promotional programs and calibrations, quick fishing trips, etc. they are free to recruit new, young, fresh and healthy individuals by offering them impressive ransoms. So, every day, there is an addition of hundreds of new and young prostitutes in western society. An eighteen years old adult starts career as prostitute openly, honorably and confidently and will remain in this profession for at least 30 years. The rolling of money and opportunity towards new adult by adopting prostitution as an honorable profession will inspire many others.

 

Just calculate on your fingers yourself,

even if you have a little goat brain, that what is the natural end of this whole situation??? How long can you go along with this???

May be another fifty years??? Then??? 

Do you think that its just ok???

 

The whole break up and destruction of family system and values,

is it in your own favor ???

 

honorable mothers and fathers and parental balance, where secure kids and their mommy papa enjoy life,are becoming less day by day, moth by month and year by year and the numbers of those who grow up with prostitute mothers are growing in society gradually but definitely,

 

is it ok???

If I say this, am I an enemy of western society ???

 

The behavior of paying zero respect to prostitutes in Islamic society has denied the opportunity to prostitutes to mix up in society. Prostitutes in Islamic society may continue their profession but underground with the help and support of corrupt characters of society. Prostitutes in Islamic society are not facilitated and recognized by law and behavior of society. The discouraging behavior of Islamic society towards prostitutes produces no inspiration in prostitution. That’s why prostitution is limited between 8.00pm to 8.00am for those corrupts who cant sleep without them. They are in thousands or above but still they are less than one or two percent. It safeguarded family system and identity and background of individuals. Kids normally enjoy their parents. Mothers and fathers enjoy with their children. There is no concept of ‘old homes’ in Islamic system because children take care their parents like they care their own skin.

 

In western society prostitutes are wealthy and prosperous,

In Islamic society prostitutes have no guarantee,

 

In western society prostitutes have equal rights, it seems very good when you read it but it has long-term consequences. For example, if my daughter wants to have friendship with a prostitute, I can’t stop her. I can only try to convince my eighteen years old daughter that ‘be careful’. If, my eighteen years old daughter decides to spend evening with a prostitute, I can’t stop her. However, I can only explain to my young confident eighteen years old daughter to ‘please take care’. More than fifty percent young adults loose their innocence that way. It’s a reality. Sexual pleasure becomes their sole ideal for the rest of their lives. As they become older, they experiment ‘new ideas’. How many pass that way without losing their innocence??? Very few.

 

In Islamic society a prostitute by the name of prostitute have no right to enter into education centers or mix up with people openly, freely and confidently. I can complain to law if a prostitute wants to mix up with my son, daughter, brother or sister or else. I have protection. It means majority have protection. It means protection of majority rules over protection of corrupt minority. Of course, you can see it differently. So, if I have no objection on prostitution I can go for it but underground without enjoying protection of law.

 

This is not hypocrisy of Islamic system but this is hypocrisy of few corrupt muslims.

 

 

So, the question remains that why there is a concept that western system is better than Islamic system ???

 

Is western system completely corrupt???

No, western system has numerous positive things,

 

For example, if a prostitute is free in western society, then at the same time, science, literature, research, thoughts, music and theatre are also free to progress and develop in western societies,

 

This freedom on both corners of good and bad creates a balance for the path of progress,

But this balance is vanishing with the passage of time in favor of corruption.

 

There is no doubt that with the passage of time this imbalance will become more and more visible,

 

Every one can count on fingers that western society can not continue longer with such a system,

 

The clutch of vehicle of freedom of western society has been pressed and there is no breaks and no direction,

 

This western system with all positive things will definitely face a hard clash not with Islamic civilization but with itself sooner or later. You can count it,

 

While with all deficiencies in Islamic society, there is no fear of any clash of any kind in any future. If there is any clash in Islamic society, this is a clash between Islamic system versus ‘western narcotized’ muslims, in which Islamic system will defeat them because Islamic system is not based on enjoyments and emotions but it has solid reasons and mathematics,

 

With the passage of time Islamic system will grow and its deficiencies will lessen, because the deficiency in society is not due to Islamic system but it is due to corrupt individuals,

 

And the positive thing is:

 

Islam does not protect the freedom of corruption,

Islam does not ensure rights of corrupt,

Islam does not guarantee immodesty,

 

That’s why the riots in Islamic Iran to westernize it failed miserably.



waqas
Posts:468
Insaf Shaheen


Insaf Shaheen


14/07/2009 3:10 AM  
Iran is run by Mullaa leaders, (where they feel that they are infallable people) . This is new form of papacy and it has nothing to do with Islam . In order to be Iran to be Islamic they should create a free and transparent check and balances on the leadership including un elected Mullahs on the top.

Riots stopped in Iran doesnt mean people are happy. The dictators also crushed descent in Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and lastly Myanmar, does this mean that they have perfect government running ?

After 30 years of revolution iranians came out on the street and protested for their rights, unfortunately west started to exploit the situation. If they had let these protest on their own and didnt try to sponsor it, Iranians would have ousted an un natural political system comprised of un elected corrupt Mullahs .

But these riots are lesson for the papacy and they should sort out their problems before it gets too late.

faakhir27
Posts:410
Insaf Shaheen


Insaf Shaheen


14/07/2009 6:25 AM  
i want to give u a comment " Nice essay"

But

Where is the so called ideal ISLAMIC SOCITY u are talking about? sorry to say but i dont see it anywahere in the world.

Islam is against the " Extreme of everything" and it has defined the punishments at their extreme and which can be liften unders special circumstances by the GOVT.

In case of the socity, u gave the example of a prostitute and Her status in both Westren Socity and In a Islamic socity that is based on true islamic soul and as im saying it again i dont see this socity anywhere in the present world. My defination of Islam might be different than yours defination.
( its a big problem and needed to be solve first before a comparison with Westren socity)
and the defination of " FREEDOM " is required before establishing a socity.

I see a Islamic socity where there is" Freedom" and as u said i dont want to take a fatva from anyone that this is the right freedom and this is the wrong freedom, boundries of this freedom has to be like as long as people and thir action of this islamic socity dont harm someone, this is freedom and lets takes things from there. And no one can impose anything on anyone unless this boundry is not broken by someone.

A age for example 18, or 20 year where one person is able to decide good or bad for him is required to be mentioned. lets say 18, so after this age every person( boy or girl ) can decide wt they want for thier own without any involvement.

Now on the base of this an Islamic socity can be based and people in So called islamic states can start their lives from there. And once its done then u can compare it. you cant compare something that dont exist with Westren socity.
This is insult of Islmic ideal socity.

Now if a lady or a boy want to be a prostitute, then so wt? if he or she is more than 18 and want to adopt a life style that is not acceptable for majority so wt? he or she is not harming someone, you can either chose or refuse to go to them,
Socity have to hv such strength in itself that no girl or boy go to chose this option, If u provide a socity where no " Jahaiz " is required, not cast system is there and married couples are provided with some EXTRA benifits than the unmarried ones ( lets say a more free part in the tex deduction) and encourage the people to be married around 18 to 20 year of age and govt. should provide working facilities and economic support, this issue can be solved, and if still some want to adopt this profession, so let them do that. and if he or she is not insulting someone and not misbehaving, then no one should insult them.

do u think insult is a solution to this Prostitute and it will discourage, no it wount. If it was workign them no one in any present so called muslim socities would hv been doing this job.  TRY THIS INSTEAD RATHER THAN INSULTING THIS MINNORITY, INSULT THE MAJORITY WHICH GO THEIR, AND TELL ME IF THIS SOLVE THIS ISSUE.
Its a long discussion buddy and u cant impose ur laws in islamic socity. and Iran might be better than the other present socities but they hv big flaws too.

And this time westren socity is far far far better than the so called islamic socities, which itself are a shame on the shining face of islamic rules given in Quran to built a socity.

hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


14/07/2009 11:00 AM  
waqas:

What do you mean by mullaa leaders???

On one hand you support a system in which mullee margret theature, as a ruler attacks iraq and sanctions iraq in which half a million Iraqis died,

On one hand you support a system in which mullee condi rice as a representative of mullaa bush and western system, attacks iraq and Afghanistan in which millions of innocent people are murdered mercilessly,

Yet, on the other hand, you object on iran by saying iran is ruled by mullaa leaders,

You say that mullaa of iran consider themselves as infallible,

So, I ask you did ever margret theature and her parliament say that she did wrong and apologized Iraqi people ??? but, you don’t taunt on theature as infallible, while in case of mullaa of iran you are very quick. What is this ???

Mullaa bush and mullee condi rice, however, said that they had made ‘errors’ in case of iraq but they said that it were errors in planning but they never said that they did wrong in iraq and Afghanistan. Yet you never taunt on mullaa bush and mullee condi rice, representatives of western system, as infallible, why???

What else is infallible if not that attitude, but you don’t taunt on western system. You continue to taunt on Islamic personalities as infallible mullas, why???

Isn’t it a fault and a big fault in western system that it produces and allows such mullaa bush or mullees theature and condi as infallibles to continue their killer policies in the world ????

Yes, there are protests in western societies against wars in iraq and afghanistan,
But, western infallible mullaas never changed their policies, isn’t it a fact ???

But, you want immediate change in iran policies because of protests in few parts of Tehran, why ??? and if, there is no change then you taunt on Islamic leaders of iran as infallible mullaas, why ????

On one hand, you keep silent in case of west,
On the other hand, you shout in case of iran with full force of your lungs, why ???

You call it new form of papacy ????
What west is doing in iraq and Afghanistan not a new form of papacy ???

Fixing puppets like shah of iran or karzai or saddam or maliki or house of saud or mobarak or musharraf or zia or zardari isn’t new form of papacy ????

Yes, you can protest thousands of times but can you change it ????
What is this if not new papacy ???

People of falistine has been protesting for last 60 years, what they got ???
What is this if not new form of papacy ???

If, Protests in west fail to change policies, you keep silent,
If, protests in iran fail to change policies, you immediately taunt mullaa…mullaa,
What is this???
What else is bias attitude ????

For your information, all religious leaders that represent iran officially, have come after elections and through votes of people. For example, khamenei, has been elected by assembly of experts consist of 86 religious figures who are directly elected by people’s votes. The assembly of experts can elect and dismiss khamenei or ask explanations. But you call it papacy but in case of west and their continued destructive policies for last fifty years, you call it democracy.

Iranians came out on streets in support of mousavi or ahmadinejad,
Who told you that they came out against the system ???

If, Iranians do not believe in system, as you say, then why they waited for election ????

after all, election is a continuity of the system, isn’t it ???
after all, election does not mean to remove the whole Islamic system, does it ???

so, the participation of more than 85% Iranians in election, confirm that they believe in system,

who told you that opposing or supporting ahmadinejad or mousavi is a war against the system ???
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


14/07/2009 12:30 PM  
faakhir27:

You should understand that ‘the ideal Islamic society’ and ‘the ideal Islamic administration’ are two different things. Very very different things.

The ideal Islamic administration can be established as we see in prophet’s era and in the era of khilafat rashida.

But, ideal Islamic society is a different thing. Even, the ideal Islamic society was not there in prophet’s own era or during khilafat rashida, as khawarjis or zakat deniers can not be included as a part of ideal Islamic society.

Problems always exist,
Because this is human society,
People have different ideals and ideas,

People even opposed prophet,
People, however, supported prophet in majority,
And, prophet gave an ideal administration in return,

The creation of Ideal administration depends on leader,
While, the creation of ideal society depends on every single human being,
And because people never hundred percent agree on one thing,
That’s why there are always various views to deal with,

Today, we do not have leader like prophet Muhammad or khilafat rashida, so, you should not expect an ideal, pure hundred percent free from all errors, administration,

But, today, a best possible administration can be maintained,
Of course, people will oppose and people will support,
This is a part of society,
However, a best possible combination with a balance of majority and minority views can be devised,

Yes, extremes in any thing is bad,
I agree with you,

But, what is this that if, a thief or rapist or smuggler is punished according to Islamic laws, then west calls it extremism and inhumane punishment,

While, the same west decides to bomb iraq and Afghanistan and kills millions of innocent people, but no one calls inhumane actions and extremism, why ???

Protests on London streets can bring back those innocent elders, soldiers, women and children who died in unnecessary wars ???

The decision of punishing one thief or hundred thieves according to Islamic law prompts you to call it inhumane and extremism and to call the system be removed ????

Yet, the decision of wars by west killing millions of innocent people never prompts you to call it inhumane and extremism and to call the system be removed, why ??? is this what you call ideal ???

of course, this is not ideal but you never object on western system but you keep limiting your objections on bush or on blaire while keep praising the system ???

on the other hand, if few hundred criminals are punished through Islamic laws, then you immediately call the immediate removal of the whole system, why ????

is this your ideal sense of democracy ???

under what system, people have been murdered in majority ???

was world war1, an islamic decision ???
was world war2, an Islamic decision ???
was atomic bombing on japan, an Islamic decision ???
was invasion of Vietnam, iraq, Afghanistan, etc, an Islamic decision ???

so, please calculate and compare that either western system has murdered more human beings or Islamic system has murdered more human beings ????

how many people have been punished in iran during 30 years ???

one hundred ???
one thousand ???
one million ???
ten million ???
how many ????

and how many innocent people have been murdered by western system ???

do you agree on one hundred million people up to now ??????

what is this ???
an ideal system ???
an ideal democracy ???
an ideal freedom ????

so, if nothing is ideal, why not we choose the less murderous system ??


hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


15/07/2009 10:09 PM  
The Sunday morning coup in Honduras shocked President Manuel Zelaya, who was still in his pajamas while giving a news conference in Costa Rica.

Zelaya was arrested in his pajamas Sunday morning by soldiers who stormed his residence and flew him into exile.
A day later, he sat beside Chavez and other allies at a Nicaragua meeting of the nine-nation ALBA alliance, which agreed to pull its ambassadors from Honduras and reject the replacement government's envoys.
Recalling his detention, he said his daughter hid under her bed for 35 minutes while masked soldiers burst in to the residence and searched for him. He was on the phone with a media outlet when the soldiers ordered him to drop the cell phone, he said.
He said the soldiers were shaking as they pointed their guns because they were "facing the president of the republic, and they knew it."
"I said, I'm not going to drop it. If you have been ordered to shoot, then shoot," Zelaya said.
He said the soldiers simply yanked the phone from his hand.
Zelaya retains the loyalty of many of Honduras' poor, for having raised the minimum wage and blaming the country's problems on the rich.
Farmworker Jesus Almendares, 30, said he was skipping work to protest the coup.
Workers Uniting, the international union, has condemned the military coup that has resulted in the illegal ousting of democratically-elected President Manuel Zelaya.

Zelaya is not a traditional character. He pushed back against the exploitation of his country by foreign "investors," thereby making enemies of corporate interests in the US and the wealthy conservatives of Honduras.

"Mr Zelaya's ally, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, blamed "the Yankee empire".
Venezuela's Chavez told the gathered leaders that "it's the moment to act" to restore Zelaya. "I'll do everything possible to overthrow this gorilla government of Honduras. It must be overthrown," the socialist leader said.
(Above mentioned words were taken from various websites just for information)
So, what is reaction of human rights champions of the world on the removal of democratically elected govt of Honduras? Actually the reaction is not different at all in any sense from the reaction they showcased after overthrowing democratically elected govt of mosaddiq in iran in 1953 copying same coup.

Lets see how they reacted on Honduras coup:

EUROPEAN UNION STATEMENT said: “This is [an] unacceptable violation of constitutional order in Honduras. The EU calls for the urgent release of President Zelaya and a swift return to constitutional normality.”

President Barack Obama of the United States said, "We believe that the coup ‘was’ not legal and that President Zelaya ‘remains’ the President of Honduras."

Note:
EU says: this ‘is’ while obama of usa says coup ‘was’ ???
What is this ???
If effects of an action continue, then its not an action but it’s a situation,
Coup does not exist now ???
What is the reason by using ‘was’ in the statement ???
So, coup now is legal ????
Is that what you mean ???

But, coup is still there and ‘is’ still a coup, it ‘is’ still illegal but not ‘was not legal’,

And what do you mean by ‘remains’ ???
Roman remains ???

French foreign ministry said: "France firmly condemns the coup that has ‘just’ taken place in Honduras. France calls on all parties to act with respect for the principles and values of democracy.”

Note:
It was just there???
It is not there now ???

What do you mean by all parties ????
Do you consider coup a party ???
Is this your western democracy ???
In your western democracy coup is a party ???

German foreign minister said: “it is ‘an act which violates the constitutional order’ of the Republic of Honduras. I call upon the ‘conflict parties’ to resume dialogue…”

Note:
On one hand you say ‘an act of violation of constitution', on the other hand in the same statement and in the same line you say ‘conflict parties’, what is this ???
What do you mean by conflict parties ???
There is only one party that violated law and removed democratically elected govt ???
So, if both are ‘conflict parties’ then why are you condemning it ???
So, if both are at conflict, it means you consider both equally in same status, then why are you issuing statement ??? just a showpiece for public consumption ???

And even, what do you mean by conflict here ???
Conflict is not a crime, but coup is crime, so why you use the word ‘conflict’ here ???

Britain’s Chris Bryant, the British Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, said: "The UK condemns the ‘expulsion’ of President Zelaya and calls for the restoration of democratic, constitutional government in Honduras.”

Note:
What do you mean by expulsion ???
Do you consider military coup equal to expulsion???
Why you never used the word ‘coup’ here ???
Why didn’t you condemn military head by name here ???

What you mean by restoration of democratic govt ???
Do you mean restoration of zelaya’s democratically elected govt ???
But you didn’t mention it here ???

While in case of Iran, every official of britain, germany, france, and usa never missed an opportunity to condemn the govt of iran by naming it,

In case of Honduras, they never condemned the military head by naming his name, why???

While in iran, they never missed to condemn all officials from ahmadinejad to the peon in the president house. They tried to condemn each and every official of iran by name,

Just compare the statements above about Honduras with those, they issued against iran,

Why so difference ???
Why such enmity against Iran???

Although, there was no proof against election in Iran,
But, thanks to the Iranian election that it gave the world an opportunity to clearly witness the enmity of western govts against iran,

this is western society and its hypocrisy.
yas80
Posts:43
Insaf Activist

Insaf Activist


16/07/2009 3:40 AM  
I like to recommend you http://www.arrivals.technocrazed.com/.
you should see all episodes
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


16/07/2009 6:28 PM  
What do you mean by democracy???

Twenty hundred thousands people went on streets of London on protest to tell London govt to ‘stop war in iraq’ did London govt obey people???

So, London govt rejected people’s calls then and there and never shown an iota of compromise on people’s demands. Do you call it democracy ???

And if, one or two hundred thousands people went on streets of Tehran to show reaction on election results and call for re-election and govt do not follow people’s demands then you call it ‘govt’s insincerity with people’ why ????

And if you say that there was no violence on London streets and there was violence on Tehran streets then you should remember that the protesters in London first applied for obtaining permission in written and an approval in written of the place of protest. You should know that London protesters changed dates several times on govt instructions for the protest. Although, London protesters were going to protest against govt policies but they never disobeyed govt and never collided with govt or with security officials. They went on street showed their displeasure and dispersed peacefully without giving London govt an ultimatum to fulfill demands within twenty four or forty eight hours.

While in Tehran, mousavi went or sent his supporters on the streets of Tehran without obtaining prior permission in written from govt along with approval of place of protest. Even, some times own mousavi supporters did not know that where the protest was on. Mousavi organized or given instructions for illegal protests at dozen places at the same time. Here and there, no body knew what’s going on. In such a situation of confusion and panic, rioters and foreign agents got the golden opportunity to play their satanic games on the streets of Tehran directly under the nose of govt. It was mousavi, who gave enemy such opportunity. In such a situation of panic and confusion, various incidents of violence took place, whether this was martyred neda’s incident or others. Enemy utilized each and every opportunity to pressurize Iranian govt.

From the start of 13th june 2009, at 1.00 am, mousavi himself started acting like a govt. he never considered himself to follow a reasonable way. He tried always to expand his objection on election beyond boundaries of country and rationale. He never condemned usa or britain or germany or france on their blatant and satanic interference inside iran. As a second after ahmadinejad, and as a representative of Iranian people, it was his prime responsibility to protect the dignity of iran and tell foreigners to keep yourself away from iran. He should have said foreigners that: “we all are Iranians, we are able to solve our problems internally, we don’t need outside help or assistance or guidance” but mousavi never said it to foreigners. Mousavi never said it to foreigners.

Imam Khomini and people of iran, during period of shah, faced all kind of violence, injustice and bloodshed, but never accepted or asked for foreign help. Even, Imam Khomini’s own son was murdered in Najaf, Iraq on the orders of shah.

How many times you saw Imam khomini crying for his son on bbc or cnn or else?
Did he even ask to international president of usa for any help or assistance or even moral assistance?

He and Iranian people never did it. Iranian people never accept foreign assistance or guidance on their internal matters. This is the nature of Iranians. They treat foreign guidance as insult.


Khamenei holds the best prestigious and the most effective office in the whole world. This office has shaken the pillars of aggressors and invaders. The resistance of this office against enemy has achieved all targets, and will continue to achieve the same in future in disregard of the ill wish of enemy.
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


16/07/2009 6:30 PM  
do you know???

most of those organizers, who organized london two million protest, today are out of job and in numerous financial and other problems. go and check out.
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


16/07/2009 9:15 PM  
there is an article on iran election,
the heading is:

"Proof: Israeli Effort to Destabilize Iran Via Twitter #IranElection"

an extremely interesting, informative and eye-poping article, if you have time and interest please see it. the link is:

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/06/proof-israeli-effort-to-destabilize-iran-via-twitter/
waqas
Posts:468
Insaf Shaheen


Insaf Shaheen


16/07/2009 11:01 PM  
Posted By hussain mehdi on 14/07/2009 11:00 AM
waqas:

What do you mean by mullaa leaders???

On one hand you support a system in which mullee margret theature, as a ruler attacks iraq and sanctions iraq in which half a million Iraqis died,

On one hand you support a system in which mullee condi rice as a representative of mullaa bush and western system, attacks iraq and Afghanistan in which millions of innocent people are murdered mercilessly,

Yet, on the other hand, you object on iran by saying iran is ruled by mullaa leaders,

You say that mullaa of iran consider themselves as infallible,

So, I ask you did ever margret theature and her parliament say that she did wrong and apologized Iraqi people ??? but, you don’t taunt on theature as infallible, while in case of mullaa of iran you are very quick. What is this ???

Mullaa bush and mullee condi rice, however, said that they had made ‘errors’ in case of iraq but they said that it were errors in planning but they never said that they did wrong in iraq and Afghanistan. Yet you never taunt on mullaa bush and mullee condi rice, representatives of western system, as infallible, why???

What else is infallible if not that attitude, but you don’t taunt on western system. You continue to taunt on Islamic personalities as infallible mullas, why???

Isn’t it a fault and a big fault in western system that it produces and allows such mullaa bush or mullees theature and condi as infallibles to continue their killer policies in the world ????

Yes, there are protests in western societies against wars in iraq and afghanistan,
But, western infallible mullaas never changed their policies, isn’t it a fact ???

But, you want immediate change in iran policies because of protests in few parts of Tehran, why ??? and if, there is no change then you taunt on Islamic leaders of iran as infallible mullaas, why ????

On one hand, you keep silent in case of west,
On the other hand, you shout in case of iran with full force of your lungs, why ???

You call it new form of papacy ????
What west is doing in iraq and Afghanistan not a new form of papacy ???

Fixing puppets like shah of iran or karzai or saddam or maliki or house of saud or mobarak or musharraf or zia or zardari isn’t new form of papacy ????

Yes, you can protest thousands of times but can you change it ????
What is this if not new papacy ???

People of falistine has been protesting for last 60 years, what they got ???
What is this if not new form of papacy ???

If, Protests in west fail to change policies, you keep silent,
If, protests in iran fail to change policies, you immediately taunt mullaa…mullaa,
What is this???
What else is bias attitude ????

For your information, all religious leaders that represent iran officially, have come after elections and through votes of people. For example, khamenei, has been elected by assembly of experts consist of 86 religious figures who are directly elected by people’s votes. The assembly of experts can elect and dismiss khamenei or ask explanations. But you call it papacy but in case of west and their continued destructive policies for last fifty years, you call it democracy.



Apart from this bold item , whatever u have written about me is all Bull S**. And what u have described the iranian system is more or less BD system of Ayub Khan. but anyways as long as u r elected i dont have any problem with it but you must be accountable to the people and Sharia law.

Moreover  read what i have written and what you have answer lol.. aap tou jazbathee hogai..

And you keep on telling me Islamic system islamic system,  huh brother there are no infallible Mullahs in islamic system . Hopefully one day the iranian people will throw away these autocratice self style champion islamists & clerics.

There is one another guy seems to be fan of "The arrivals", so i have my opinion that more than 80% is just crap inside it.
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


17/07/2009 8:01 AM  
waqas:

where is accountability in western democracy for bush, cheney, blaire, mullee theature, mullee popee condi, and for others ???

have you seen them standing in any court hand cuffed as a murderers of millions of innocent people worldwide???

have you seen them ever in western democracy ????

if, lack of accountability in a system prompted you to object on islamic democracy in iran, then where is accountability for bush, cheney and for other popes of politics of the western holy cum papacy democracy???

what kind of system works in western democracy where bush-cheney are considered more holey than jesus???

jesus can be questioned, they are not,
jesus can be called on in courts, they are not,
jesus can be punished for 'sin', they are not ???

is this a system or 'anjuman's' briefcase ???

what a fraudulant system.

waqas
Posts:468
Insaf Shaheen


Insaf Shaheen


17/07/2009 11:36 AM  
yaar may kia keh raha hoon aur aap kia keh rahay hussain bai.. I am not talking about west or bush..
okey u want to put words in my mouth that Bush is the most demorcratic person and america doesnt kill anyone in the world , and i havent seen any innocent person killed by Bush... agree khush hon gai ..
What u r saying isn't relavant to what i m writing ...
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


17/07/2009 12:05 PM  
[quote name='waqas' date='17/07/2009 11:36 AM']
yaar may kia keh raha hoon aur aap kia keh rahay hussain bai.. I am not talking about west or bush..
okey u want to put words in my mouth that Bush is the most demorcratic person and america doesnt kill anyone in the world , and i havent seen any innocent person killed by Bush... agree khush hon gai ..
What u r saying isn't relavant to what i m writing ...

whatever you said have been answered appropriately and properly,
but of course, you will never say that you understand it,

few people do that usually,
bhutto was toppled and murdered although he gave lot of freedom and he was a liberal,
but, few people had reasons and killed him,
and jamat-e-islami distributed sweets in karachi to calibrate killing of liberal bhutto,

so, few people always create problems in society,

the history has told us to never listen such few people,
because they do not disagree for improvement,
but, they disagree with any system that improves country and muslims,
because they cant see muslims progressing and developing,
they want to see muslims always in chaos and in problems,

whether this is bhutto or khomini or mossadiq or imran or ahmadinejad,
they will always oppose,

when they will see religion in power and progressing, they will oppose,
when they will see liberal system in power and progressing, they will oppose,
they will always come with disputes whether this system or that system,

so, its better to let them sing in their own hide parks.

Bahadurr7
Posts:37
Insaf Activist

Insaf Activist


18/07/2009 12:01 PM  
One muslims view on democry and freedumb..


US Attacks Kill 45 People in Pakistan"
I am lost for words to defend or disagree with these acts of pre planed “murders”, “target killings“, ideological genocides? or extermination of people terrorizing the mercenary military industrial complex of the West, India, Iran, Pakistan and central Asia?
Who are these 45 people? According to the Lords of war in the west and the Zionist controlled media in Pakistan and the West, they are not “people”, they are terrorizing monsters against humanity, thus they are animals who need to be hunted down and killed via holocaust of the aerial robotic machines controlled by the Jewish/Christen crusaders of democracy, justice and the defenders of the universal woman’s right to chose to be able to expose their hair and skin and men’s right to have sex with other men with a marriage license ?
Tens of thousands of the good white race of European "Nato", the American angles of love and democracy are in the hunt for theses creatures with 80 billion dollars a year expense to cleanse the desolated, inhabitable and rugged mountain tops of the most poor country in the world, Afghanistan and the most unfortunate Muslim majority country Pakistan, run by the British and American English speaking dung beetle corrupt to the core elites and their mercenary military elites, who are willing to kill t here own kind for the mighty dollar and Western passports and education for their chosen few family members.
Now the way this war and crime against humanity is sold and marketed by the Zionist controlled media, either you are with us or you are a monster. Why are these White Europeans and Americans spending billions of dollars to kill few thousand dirt poor villagers, farmers and students from the Saudi Funded religious seminaries every year, every day, every week and keep killing them in small numbers on daily bases?
Is it to protect the Western peoples right to vote ? Get drunk? Watch porn on demand? The right to watch or participate in gang bangs, Able to fuck their sex partner in the ass or any hole in the body with the freedom and protection of the white mans continuation? able to watch rated R Hollywood movies? Sexually chcharged and full of vilonce TV programes? The freedom to get high? To protect the women’s and men’s right for breast implants? Sex change cosmetic surgeries? Right of Penis enlargement or virginal reduction?
Why the West is so afraid of few thousand disgruntle of western way of life, people living in a land locked country with no way of traveling outside? I am utterly confused and scratching my head, why the Western civilization? always have to kill other people who are not as "civilized" as the white race “is” and will continue to preach, to prove their superior ways about humanity? Why? Why the hell they don’t leave the uncivilized people alone and let them discover the true civilization in their own ways?
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


19/07/2009 9:06 AM  
some facts about "mother of democracy" :-

Do you know?

Who is the official head of state of Britain ???
The queen, an unelected … life time head,

The queen (unelected) can reject any law passed by both house of lords and house of commons. Without signature of queen (unelected) every legislation is just a piece of trash,

The british system is called “queen in parliament”,
The queen actually delegates her rule to houses of lords and commons and her delegation and authority is indicated by the presence of the mace, a gold scepter, residing in both houses,

After the election, the queen invites elected members to form a govt on ‘her behalf’,
The queen appoints and approves ministers,

Armed forces of Britain are commanded by queen through parliament. The only person who commands all british armed forces is one and is queen,

Prime minister of Britain does not rule but he runs it on behalf of queen. It is his duty to meet queen every week to inform her activities of govt and to ask queen ‘if she has any advice’,

The govt and parliament can be removed at any time by the queen’s orders, and prime minister has no authority to resist such orders,

Each year Parliament is formed and dissolved by Royal Decree,

The highest court in Britain is appointed for life by the queen…the law lords,





Do you know?

House of Lords in Britain???
House of Lords are an unelected group of lords or rich of Britain, who are appointed by the queen,

Most of members of House of Lords are members today because their fathers were members yesterday,

House of lords can interfere in the business of house of commons which is an elected group of people,

House of lords can delay a legislation passed by house of commons for one year and amend the legislation passed by commons,

House of lords (unelected) can kill a motion raised by of house of commons (elected) to extend the life of parliament beyond five years,

House of lords do not represent any constituency,

House of lords can question govt on any work, and govt answers to unelected house of lords,

House of lords (unelected) is the supreme legislative authority in Britain,

those, who criticise on democracy in iran, must know that there is no single official in iran who is not elected either directly or indirectly by the people,

while in mother of democracy there are hundreds of completely unelected people in system, just like house of saud and there is no way of accountability of such persons. no one has authority to make them accountable or bring them to justice or even ask an explanation of their actions...no one.

agr933
Posts:582
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


19/07/2009 11:09 AM  
Posted By hussain mehdi on 19/07/2009 9:06 AM
Do you know?

House of Lords in Britain???
House of Lords are an unelected group of lords or rich of Britain, who are appointed by the queen,

Most of members of House of Lords are members today because their fathers were members yesterday,



I agree with first argument that the Lords are the rich Britains (unelcted and probably buy this title:-))

However,

don't agree with the fathers argument. Not sure if it stands for every Lord.....I'll investgate

Dr Fouzia Sadiq
PTI UK
Twitter id: @DrFouziaSadiq
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


19/07/2009 11:36 AM  
agr933:

i said most of them but not all of them,

------------------------------------------------

lets have a picture of 'democracy live' society:

Few events in britain from 1981 to 1993:

13 January Thirteen young black people die in a fire at a party at 439 New Cross Road, south London. The tragedy is followed by a 10-mile march of 15,000 people to central London - the biggest black demonstration yet seen in Britain. 'Thirteen dead, nothing said,' state the placards as the demonstrators, who march through Fleet Street, also complain about press indifference to black people's deaths.

March/April Police launches Operation Swamp 81 in Brixton. In six days, 120 plain-clothes officers stop 943 people, the vast majority of them black, arresting 118. 'It was a resounding success,' says the head of the local CID.

10 April In an indication of the mistrust felt towards the police by the black community, fuelled by Operation Swamp 81, police in Brixton who claim to be treating a black stabbing victim are surrounded by about 50 black youths, who 'rescue' the victim.

11 April The arrest of a black youth outside a minicab office in Atlantic Road, Brixton, following a scuffle with a plain-clothes police officer, triggers violent clashes with police. At 5pm, a police car is set alight; an hour an a half later, the first petrol bombs are thrown. As clashes escalate between the police and local youths (both black and white), the fire brigade is unable to get through to deal with fires now raging in several locations, including the Windsor Castle public house. A fire engine is hijacked and a turntable burnt out in Railton Road. By the end of the night, 14 properties and 22 vehicles have been destroyed by fire.

20 April More than 100 people are arrested and 15 police injured in clashes with mainly black youths at fairs in Finsbury Park, Forest Gate and Ealing, all in London. A further 350 are arrested in 'incidents outside London'. Most go unreported by the press

8 June The Black Parents Association in Manchester says that Moss Side police station 'has long been regarded by the black community as the operational base of a racist army in occupation'. It accuses the police of 'SAS-style raids' and 'brutality, violence, intimidation and racial abuse'. This follows the use of 16 police vehicles and 28 officers to arrest a youth

13-14 June More than 80 arrests are made during clashes between skinhead racists and black people in Coventry

June-July A wave of far-right attacks on the premises of black, multi-racial and left-wing organisations claims bookshops, the Labour Party, the Runnymede Trust and a north London community centre, burnt out in an arson attack, among its targets. In Walthamstow, four members of the Khan family, including three children, are killed in an arson attack on their home. Between 1976 and 1981 there have been 31 racist murders of black people in Britain. These include, in 1981, a disabled Sikh woman killed in Leeds after a petrol bomb attack on her home, and an elderly Asian woman in Leamington Spa, set alight after racists doused her in petrol.

4-8 July Liverpool 8, better known as Toxteth to outsiders, goes up in flames in four nights of what home secretary William Whitelaw describes as 'violence of extraordinary ferocity'. Police are forced to withdraw from a one-mile stretch of the main road through Toxteth as 150 buildings are burnt down and some 781 police officers are put out of action.

7 July Around 250 youths, black and white, clash with police in Wood Green, north London; 43 are charged with theft and violence

8 July More than 1,000 young people besiege the police station at Moss Side

9 July Three hundred police are required to quell street disturbances in Woolwich, south London

10 July New riots in Brixton are accompanied by a wave of disturbances the length and breadth of Britain. Southall, Battersea, Dalston, Streatham and Walthamstow in London, Handsworth in Birmingham, Chapeltown in Leeds, Highfields in Leicester, Ellesmere Port, Luton, Leicester, Sheffield, Portsmouth, Preston, Newcastle, Derby, Southampton, Nottingham, High Wycombe, Bedford, Edinburgh, Wolverhampton, Stockport, Blackburn, Huddersfield, Reading, Chester, Aldershot - all these and other towns and cities report 'riots' of varying degrees over the next few days. Margaret Thatcher cancels a planned visit to Toxteth because her safety cannot be guaranteed.

15 July Early morning raids in search of alleged petrol bombs (none are found) trigger new clashes in Brixton

25 July 1,000 motorcyclists clash with police in the Lake District town of Keswick,

In 1985, PC Keith Blakelock was killed in a night of sustained violence at the Broadwater Farm estate in Tottenham, north London, following the death of a black mother during a police raid on her home. in 1993, a massive demonstration against the locating of the headquarters of the far-right British National Party in south-east London, where black teenager Stephen Lawrence was murdered, ended in serious violence,


britain has lowest population of black but hosts biggest black population in prisons,

On 13 April, Margaret Thatcher said:

"Nothing, but nothing, justifies what happened"

When some one complained about police, thatcher replied:
"What absolute nonsense and what an appalling remark ... No one should condone violence. No one should condone the events ... They were criminal, criminal."

did you see???

is it you britain, that raises questions on human rights in iran ???
really ???
do you have such credibility ?????
most think "NO".
agr933
Posts:582
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


19/07/2009 12:43 PM  
i beg your pardon Hussain, I did not read your message carefully. You did mention "most" indeed.

I understand your feelings and frustation. May be all of us have similar arguments......


Dr Fouzia Sadiq
PTI UK
Twitter id: @DrFouziaSadiq
hussain mehdi
Posts:1315
Insaf Shaheen

Insaf Shaheen


19/07/2009 1:08 PM  
No,

what frustrationm
why frustration,
how frustration,

you know?

frustration does not argue,
hope argues,

this is hope that maintains balance,
this is balance that argues,

frustration rejects wait,
this is hopt that prepares you for wait,
wait is not frustration,

you see time, you see hope,
you see end, you face frustration,

an end cant have hope,
a hope cant have frustration,

this is as simple as that,
but few even argue on that.
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