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Subject: unity or disintegration? a view.

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hussain mehdi (guest)

22/03/2007 12:23 PM
Do you know how much the boundary of islamic country is important in the eyes of quran and in the followings of sahaba? Can you present one single example of any prophet of god who approved or supervised any kind of seperatist movement? Even bani israilists who had been continiously mistreated by Firaons but moosa (a.s) never exploited and invited people to a separatist movement? Yes moosa (a.s) decided to insist the Firaons but not in the name of separatist movement. Do you know when there was a huge conflict between Ali (k.w)& muaviah (r.a) and there were wars between them in which more than 70,000 sahabas were dead but you can not produce a single example of any sahabi who raised the point to divide the islamic state into two parts? In theory, if two states were created, there perhaps would not have been such blood shed. But why there was no voice to divide the islamic state to safe guard such blood sheds, because sahaba knew that the raising voice to divide an islamic state is a great sin than the blood sheds in itself between sahaba. In my view, promotions of divisions among muslims in the name of lanuage, culture or costume or promotions of separatist movements like mukti bahini or jinah pore or else is a sin, more great sin than killing of 70,000 sahaba. God has never advocated separatists movements. God likes unity in muslims. The language, culture or costume is only a medium of recognition, like more than 90 million home in pakistan, each home has its own recognition. Those, who exploite public recognition in a manor to divide people or make conflicts between them are sinners, great sinners. I request muslims to not to be a part of such great sinners because this is a sin more great than killing of 70,000 sahaba. Just think about it and decide! what is important? your god or your interests? Unity or disintegration?

beautifulmind (guest)

22/03/2007 3:53 PM
well i respect your opinion, But being an internaitonal relations student, this world never remain the same. Starting from men living in cave to its miracles in sky, humans evolve intellectually. This new moderna world is based on nation-state system and humans feel comfortable. but still every era has its own dimensions and requirements. So its almost impossible to have one islamic state as it doesnt make sense. When muslims empire got out of Arab they couldnt adhere to one nation as well, bcz its difficult to sustain uniformity of views between different cultures and traditions. Every nation has right to follow Islam according to their style of living, because basis of Islam is simple and adjustable to any nation in the world. Therefore, my argument is not the nation state is a problem, our problem is not institutionalizing ourself in the modern environment. Suppose Europeon Union has become a role model of integration of various different nation, who always fought always , you cant feel that you are living in different country if u wana move from one to another. Today EU is threat to american dominance of Economy. Similarly we have opportunity to activate OIC and institutionlize our system, And its very easy because of one faith, but actually we are uneducated people who lives in the past and cant coup with modern international dynamics.

hussain mehdi (guest)

22/03/2007 5:01 PM
you are still arguing about individuality of various cultures.you are still arguing about past mistakes to make future mistakes.do you know how many different cultures are growing and being maintained in united states under one american constitution?do you know europe has more than one hundred different cultures in their twenty five or more europian countries? and yet you insist that islam does not have ability to unite even its own muslim nation? is it that what your opinion based on? and i tell you that the europian union is going to disintegrate with in 30 years from now.the people of europian union are not happy with the set up as new polls show that. islam is a religion of peace,religion of inventions, religion of modernism, religion of integration and unity.this is only islam which deffinetely has the ability to unite various cultures under on name "muslim". its not the point to destroy all islamic country's govts and force fully create a new state but the point is to just not repeat such past mistakes in the future and create a society in our country which reflects our unity as a muslim.thats what i am trying to tell. is it wrong?

amfarooqui
Posts:81

Insaf Tiger

22/03/2007 9:50 PM
kindly forgive my ignorance and lack of understanding but I fail to see where this debate is coming from. with unity do we mean a stronger OIC a the Idea of forming a state of muslims kindly elaborate on the fact that how is it possible considering the current geography and geo-political issues? youn to syed bhi ho mirza bhi ho afghan bhi ho ho to tum sabhi kuch hi batao to musalman bhi ho

------------------------------------ Remember the test of courage comes when we are in minority

hussain mehdi (guest)

23/03/2007 12:50 AM
geo-political differences cause muslims to dis-unity? is that what your point is? so, why lebanon's hizbullah has a deep affection here in pakistan some twenty thousand miles away from lebanon.why we feel an affection to felistine? why we feel affection to bosnian muslims? just tell me what are the difference of interests between egypt and pakistan due to geo-political differences? or what are the difference of interests among various muslim countries? none. what is the interest of egypt is in the interest of pakistan no matter what the geo-political difference is.because we are muslims thats why our interests are same.you know, various electrons with all their individuality move in a circle around one nucleus,they never tend to separate from the nucleus until there is a foreign factor.our nucleus is islam and we should recognize those foreign factors that try to break our unity.cultures can not create countries, you know culture changes at every 10 miles in india so would you agree to create 100 little little indias, i hope you wont so why do you immediately agree when it comes to bifercate muslim lands? you agree when east pakistan separates but you dont agree when it comes to india? what is your opinion about mujeeb-ur-rehman's separatist movement and what is your opinion about various separatists movements in india like tamils and others.you kill yourself with your own hands why? muslim govts should device policies of their respective country in the interest of common muslims not in the interests of some pop up powers.in my view, all muslims around the world have one thinking and one policy in disregard to their boundaries.boundaries dont restrict muslim interests but some puppy govts.so, please dont confuse muslims.can you touch christians in pakistan? you cant because christian nation in the world is united and has a common policy, as same when muslims will have unity and common policy the problems of minority muslims in other countries will automatically be solved.is it clear?

amfarooqui
Posts:81

Insaf Tiger

23/03/2007 10:12 AM
I appreciate your comments and views they are highly commendable and I agree with them but in order to carry on with my point of view I need to understand your's in respect to the questions I put forward earlier 1. Are we talking about a stronger OIC where the organisation has more power and force to take actions? if so I agree 2.If not are you talking about a state merger for the sake of muslim unity? if so how is it possible considering current geography and there is not point cursing and blaming Pakistanis as you might want to look at the condition and foriegn policy of Arab states.

------------------------------------ Remember the test of courage comes when we are in minority

amfarooqui
Posts:81

Insaf Tiger

23/03/2007 10:15 AM
History is witness we were always comitted for the unity of muslims for past 3 decades the problem started when Busharraf arrived. and if you might have not noticed yet nobody here likes him.

------------------------------------ Remember the test of courage comes when we are in minority

hussain mehdi (guest)

23/03/2007 3:16 PM
The answers are bellow (to amfarooqui): 1- Oic will never be stronger and will always be ineffective and a waste until and unless there is a public participation in the decision making process of oic. Have you ever noticed that the oic countries excluding iran had ever organized a public meetings or workshops or any public gathering before making decisions in oic. Why? We have workshops on IT, narcotics, women rights, etc. etc, why these govts do not invite public opinion before making decions in oic. Because these govts have converted oic forum into safegaurding their masters. You have witnessed that vanizvella broke their relations with israel because of israeli atrocities on lebanon people but oic was doing nothing except meetings and dinners. The public opinion from karachi to bairut was very clear but because oic did not follow public opinion that’s why it was inefective. So, who are at fault? The public united opinion or geo-politic differences or the puppet govts? Decide your self. These are the puppet govts who create and concpirate against the will of the people. These puppet govts propagate the geo-political differences between the people of various countries while this is against the ground reality. These puppet govts actually create conflicts between various sects in muslims just to satisfy thirst of interests of their masters. Isn’t it wrong? Give me one single example that the muslims of the world had different conclusions on any issue, would you? Whether this is felistine, lebanon, bosnia, kashmir, iraq, afghanistan or iran atomic work, all muslims of the world have a common united opinion but most of the govts do not. So, who are forcefully making decions on behalf of muslims.the muslims? Or their govts? Of course the govts. 2- Your second question have already been replied in above mentioned pragraph.

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