iyyaz
Posts:41
Insaf Activist
 | | 11/03/2010 2:24 AM |
| General Election 2002
NA-123 Lahore-VI
1 Mr.Ahsan Sheikh National Alliance 2375
2 Engineer Muhammad Saleem Ullah Khan Independent 774
3 Haji Muhammad Saeed Arain Pakistan Tehreek-e- Insaf 2757
4 Mr.Tariq Waheed Butt Pakistan Peoples Party Parliamentarians 19591
5 Mr.Mujtaba Shuja-ul-Rehman Independent 998
6 Makhdoom Muhammad Javaid Hashmi Pakistan Muslim League(N) 30372
7 Mian Ahmad Meraj Independent 359 (i guess it's typing mistake,its Hamid Meraj)
8 Mian Abdul Waheed Pakistan Muslim League(QA) 9579
-----------------------------------------------------------
General Election 2008
NA-123 (Lahore-VI)
1-Babu Ashar Jahangir Independent 1067
2-Ch. Abrar Ahmed Independent 509
3-Ch. Abdul Jabbar Independent 33
4-Haji Muhammad Saeed Arian Muttahida Qaumi Movement Pakistan 89
5-Hafiz Muhammad Nadeem Mutthida Majlis-e-Amal Pakistan (MMA) 76
6-Syed Zaeem Hussain Qadri Independent 18
7-Makhdoom Muhammad Javed Hashmi Pakistan Muslim League (N) 67707
8-Mian Ikhlaq Ahmed Gudoo Independent 7843
9-Mian Hamid Miraj Independent 31
10-Mian Aziz-ur-Rehman Chan Independent 18807
11-Mian Rehman Aziz Chan Pakistan Peoples Party Parliamentarians 187
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear members,
i've just copy the previous election results, those who think it's Mian Hamid Miraj's "personal" vote bank should rethink.........Is it possible HUGE difference of "personal vote bank" in just last 2 polls?
it is certainly PTI's VOTE BANK which has been increased and will continue increasing. Inshallah.
Congratulation PTI who dreamed of Prosperous Pakistan.
Keep working guys our journey just starts.
God bless you All.
| | | |
|
madeel
Posts:1927
Insaf Shaheen
Web Management
| | 11/03/2010 2:32 AM |
| check PP-144 for 2002. Mian Hamid Meraj had secured 6866.
Anyway, there are discrepancies which I am unable to explain. Let's have a response from those who have better acquaintance with the local politics. It seems that the picture is not that simple as it appear.
| | | |
|
madeel
Posts:1927
Insaf Shaheen
Web Management
| | 11/03/2010 2:46 AM |
| Posted By insafkiawaz on 11/03/2010 2:23 AM
from the 55 and 123 elections valid conclusion is that we need more grass root ideological workers in every Union Council and less drawing room hypothesis givers and we also need to think that what brought for the party when we dissolved RWP body to make Chohan and Jazi khan as office bearers
...keep your ideological workers intact, they are the assessts for you and they will win votes for you..not the drawing room theorists or loyality switchers..
100% agree 
I am looking forward for your response. It will surely improve my understanding.
An aside. Most experimental physicists are highly critical of theoretical physicists that we do the real work, these theoreticians get more credence than their due share The famous experimental physicist John Dalton was extremely critical of Einstein. Theoreticians have their own place; in every discipline. Noam Chomsky or Bertrand Russell are examples of theoreticians in politics.
| | | |
|
sufghan
Posts:568
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 3:34 AM |
| | This is what I have been saying for ages now that sooner or later PTI will have to induct electable candidates with personal vote banks because PTI on its own has not built any vote bank curtosy of weak leadership at center for 14 years. So yes its true Arian baradari of Hamid Miraj did support him in this election. However Baradari system works everywhere in Pakistan so it should not be taken in negative perspective. Its true in order to move forward PTI will have to induct ex politicans from PML-Q and PML N and many more etc etc. Personal vote bank matters a lot because only PPP and PML-N has got party vote in Pakistan. It would be a dream come true for PTI if charismatic legendary Mustafa Khar joins PTI that would give them lot more leverage. Unlike UK where Tories and Labour party rely on Party vote bank, in Pakistan baradari system has been there for ages and lets face it PTI will take ages to build vote bank so its better to induct ex politicans from ex parties in order to get better results. | | | |
|
insafkiawaz
Posts:769
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 3:48 AM |
|
@
madeel
"check PP-144 for 2002. Mian Hamid Meraj had secured 6866."
2002 most rigged elections in facour of Q and Hamid Meraj was candidate of Q at that time..why u r not mentioing that......
"It seems that the picture is not that simple as it appear"
Picture is very clear, but if someone like Nusrat Javed does not wanna see is other issue he has got glasses of Darkness got from President house
| | | |
|
sufghan
Posts:568
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 3:56 AM |
| | Even yesterday night on Dunya Today with Moeed Pirzada this issue Hamid Miraj getting Arain votes was taken into consideration. What PTI actually needs is biradari votes because on its own it would be impossible to win NA seats.So its not a bad idea if PTI goes on to induct ex PML Q PML N candidates. After all Hamid Miraj was ex PML guy. And you can see the results. Ijaz Jazi was non entity in politics and he secured 3000. So yes biradari cast votes matter in Pakistan and only way to look forward is to make sure PTI goes on to induct electable candidates with personal vote bank of around 15000 per constitutency. Opoortunity will arrive before next egenral elections and PTI will have to grab it. | | | |
|
madeel
Posts:1927
Insaf Shaheen
Web Management
| | 11/03/2010 4:04 AM |
| @insafkiawaz
I was correcting the reported votes given by iyyaz in the above post. He thought that Mian Ahmed Meraj was a typo, and thought it is actually Mian Hamid Meraj.
Anyway, insafkiawaz bhai, I always wonder why are you so paranoid This is not the first time I said it so as I have experience you reacting the same way before.
well, you seems to look at with disdain to theoreticians. Otherwise you would not be surprise at my comments. It is said that in theory there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice there is. However, on the other hand, if difference between theory and practice get wider, it also cause problems. So there would be some difference, but it should be as less as possible.
I use the word picture to avoid technical terms. Now allow me to use some. The model is not that straightforward as I thought. It does not explain few things, hence it needs to be modified. You may ask what the model is. A model is like a picture of a scenary as painted by an artist. Artist never captures everything, in fact this is impossible. He or she only picks what he or she regard as the essential component(s); what he thinks capture the essence. A theoretician too does the same. He always begin with a simplest model which explain available data (or facts). As soon as he discover new facts which does not explain by that simplest model, he goes on to modify accordingly. Needless to say that it is never complete. So I was admitting that model which was developed through discussions (that is why I enjoy discussions), is insufficient or incomplete. Need some modification so that difference between theory and practice not get too wide. Lastly, you can't break up a model merely by a raw data. If one want to refute it, there is method for it. Thanks for listening my lecture. It should be enough for you now. You are welcome to misconstrue(?) it as you like.
| | | |
|
mugal
Posts:1121
Insaf Shaheen
Moderator
| | 11/03/2010 4:20 AM |
| madeel,insafkiawaz
whats going on guys?i read all the discussion btween both of u,u both r very sincere and honest worker of PTI,where u people r going?i dont think it is a very big issue which u both r discussing, madell was wrote something on the baised by a office bearer of PTI from lahore,but i think madell is not insisting that what he is saying is corrrect,insafkiawaz plz control ur passions,and understand what madeel is saying,he just want to correct his figure and if he have some misunderstanding u may correct him,this is the democracy,u both r writing on a PTI official wabsite so imression will be no good for new viewer,anyway forget this matter that mian hamid miraj got his personal votes or not,we all are the part of PTI and every one once he came in PTI have no personal votes,after they have PTI votes,tnx | |
Yasir Qadeer
Sec Information PTI France
Member PTI Web/Social Media Team
[email protected]
www.facebook.com/YasirQad
https://twitter.com/#!/YasirQadeer1
Ph No : 0033618887480
................................................................
Failure is a word unknown to me
Muhammad Ali Jinnah
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | |
|
madeel
Posts:1927
Insaf Shaheen
Web Management
| | 11/03/2010 4:33 AM |
| Sufghan has presented his model. He claims that this is a way to success. It is grounded on a bitter reality that brothery system may prove to be effective. On pragmatic grounds, I don't have anything to refute or criticize his model. That is why I don't.
However, being an idealistic (or a theoritician ), I do not support it either. But my disliking of this model should not stop me admitting that I can not refute it on the pragmatic ground. I personally believe that if PTI would have pragmatic politicians like Khar, we can not bring the change in the real sense. There is nothing to support my claim except the belief that only credible, sincere, and capable people can bring the change. Some has looked at the middle ground that let this happen for few constituencies say 10-15. Here the matter boils down to one's personal biases or preferences. Actually preference is merely good looking synonym to bias. | | | |
|
insafkiawaz
Posts:769
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 4:37 AM |
| @
madeel
i do not need any lectures from Drawing room political analyst like you, i am a grass root political worker and knows much better politics of Lahore and ground realties . From 1988 to 2002, i have seen all elections (2008 i was out of country) ..so your lectures have absolutely no value..and by the way i have also observed that you tend to disagree for nothing..what u gonna prove here? i have a valid point that vote casted for PTI in 123 is purely an effort of PTI political workers in the area and has nothing to do with personal vote of Hamid Meraj which is pretended by NJ and you are supporting him for no reason
I think it is your hobby to disagree and sometimes you have no idea about facts still you pretend yourself as a "expert"
keep your lectures to your drawing room, they are not going to benefit a single vote for PTI
and all your lectures started when you are proved wrong..you were propagating 6000 votes of Meraj in 2002 and rather than commenting that 2002 elections were highly rigged and Meraj was a candidate of Q at that time, Q supported by all agencies , IK mentioned that 1 million times in talk shows
when Meraj fought elections independently he got 37 and 231 votes ..but you will never see these facts, neither you will believe in statements and views of 123 team because you are "drawing room expert"
i never wanted to write this line but your arrogance and ignorance forced me to write that ask Meraj to contest General election once again as Indepenedent as he has got huge vote bank (according to your drawing room theory and Nusrat Javed`s biased analysis) and then see how many votes he will get | | | |
|
madeel
Posts:1927
Insaf Shaheen
Web Management
| | 11/03/2010 4:47 AM |
| @insafkiawaz
Your points have some merits. That is why I said that picture is not clear. I need to think about it. That is my hypothesis or model is not correct. But you want immediate acceptance of your view. I am a slow learner. That's true that I am a drawing room politician. But it is not something terribly wrong or to be hated.
Anyway, you can check election commission website whether my reported figure is correct or wrong. If worng I will admit it as before. | | | |
|
madeel
Posts:1927
Insaf Shaheen
Web Management
| | 11/03/2010 4:49 AM |
| Posted By iyyaz on 11/03/2010 2:24 AM
7 Mian Ahmad Meraj Independent 359 (i guess it's typing mistake,its Hamid Meraj)
It was that line I was referring to that it is not Mian Hamid Meraj. He fought from different constituency. And you have made it such a huge thing.
| | | |
|
KKNIAZI
Posts:659
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 5:13 AM |
| The biradri system is only prevalent in PUNJAB and to an extent in Sindh, it has no bearings in NWFP, Baluchistan so "the BIRADRI SYSTEM exists in whole Pakistan" is based on false premise. .
Therefore, if PTI needs success, it has to see west of Punjab not Punjab.
Cheers,
Kaleem | |
"TRUTH WON'T MAKE ME RICH BUT SET ME FREE" | |
|
iyyaz
Posts:41
Insaf Activist
| | 11/03/2010 5:16 AM |
| @madeel
would you please mention which constituency he(hamid meraj) fought then ?? | | | |
|
sufghan
Posts:568
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 5:44 AM |
| Madeel/Insafkiawaz,
Its not that Hamid Miraj got all 100% biradari votes or 100% party votes. Its basically bit of both. On PTI platform he was able to create some verve and energy in his constitutency and for that PTI worked extermely hard , IK himself conducted a massive jalsa in NA123. Since he attained some popularity (his dad was former MPA) because of IK's presence some Arian biradari fellows decided to vote for him. So yes PTI has build some vote bank in that area and on top of it some biradari support helped him secure 10000 votes.
| | | |
|
sufghan
Posts:568
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 5:48 AM |
| KKniazi
Biradari system is prevalent in Punjab and Sindh and in Baluchistan its Sardar/Nawab tribal system. In NWFP its again Tribal system alongside some party vote bank JUI F ANP etc. In Karachi its again caste system where mohajirs vote for MQM only. Biradaris do matter in Indo/Pak politics. | | | |
|
bilalnuman
Posts:485
Insaf Shaheen
| | 11/03/2010 5:53 AM |
| @insafkiawaz
"keep your ideological workers intact, they are the assessts for you and they will win votes for
you..not the drawing room theorists or loyality switchers.."
100 % AGEED BROTHER.31 votes for HAMID MIRAJ.
Here is result of 2008.
Contesting Candidates Party Affiliation Votes Polled
Babu Ashar Jahangir Independent 1067
Ch. Abrar Ahmed Independent 509
Ch. Abdul Jabbar Independent 33
Haji Muhammad Saeed Arian Muttahida Qaumi Movement Pakistan 89
Hafiz Muhammad Nadeem Mutthida Majlis-e-Amal Pakistan (MMA) 76
Syed Zaeem Hussain Qadri Independent 18
Makhdoom Muhammad Javed Hashmi Pakistan Muslim League (N) 67707
Mian Ikhlaq Ahmed Gudoo Independent 7843
Mian Hamid Miraj Independent 31
Mian Aziz-ur-Rehman Chan Independent 18807
Mian Rehman Aziz Chan Pakistan Peoples Party Parliamentarians 187
http://www2.ecp.gov.pk/vsite/ElectionResult/Search.aspx?constituency=NA&constituencyi | | | |
|
madeel
Posts:1927
Insaf Shaheen
Web Management
| | 11/03/2010 6:18 AM |
| Posted By iyyaz on 11/03/2010 5:16 AM
@madeel
would you please mention which constituency he(hamid meraj) fought then ??
PP-144 in 2002.
| | | |
|